Mover: Portugal Unpacked
Dreaming of a life in Portugal? Mover: Portugal Unpacked dives deep into the realities of relocating to this beautiful country. Join us as we chat with others who've taken the plunge, sharing their unfiltered experiences – the highs, the lows, and everything in between. From navigating visa applications and finding housing, to embracing the culture and building a new community, we explore the practicalities and emotional rollercoaster of starting a new life in Portugal. Whether you're actively planning a move or simply curious about the experience, Mover: Portugal Unpacked offers honest and insightful conversations, giving you a realistic perspective on what it truly takes to make Portugal your new home.
Mover: Portugal Unpacked
Moving to Portugal: A California Family's Leap into the Unknown
What makes a family of four trade the familiarity of Los Angeles for the cobblestone streets of Portugal? For Stephanie and Michael, the pandemic became a catalyst for reimagining their lives, creating space to question why they should postpone their European dreams until retirement.
Their journey began in 2020, with a newborn strapped to Stephanie's chest while working remotely and their toddler watching Sesame Street as an impromptu babysitter. These challenging circumstances sparked conversations about what truly mattered. Initially drawn to Italy, their plans evolved when Portugal repeatedly entered their conversations, eventually capturing their hearts during family visits.
The path from dream to reality wasn't straightforward. Their visa application experience reveals the intense anxiety of assembling critical documentation – from background checks to health insurance proof – all while managing passport renewal mishaps and racing against deadlines.
Now in the final preparation phase, they're simultaneously converting their garage into a rental property, making crucial decisions about their children's Portuguese education, and facing the emotional challenge of downsizing a decade of possessions. Most poignantly, they share the deeper motivations behind their move: escaping concerns about gun violence after their children's school experienced lockdowns, seeking walkability instead of car dependency, and craving more quality family time away from the relentless American hustle.
What makes their story remarkable is its accessibility. As Stephanie emphasizes, they're not exceptional – just an average middle-class family willing to persevere, stay aligned in their vision, and remain flexible through inevitable challenges. Their journey illuminates not just the logistical realities of international relocation, but the profound value of daring to reimagine what life could be.
Have you been contemplating your own international move? Subscribe to hear more authentic accounts of the Portugal relocation experience, and discover if this sun-drenched country might be your next chapter too.
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I've seen a lot of change, been through a lot of pain.
Speaker 2:So the preparation was? It felt intense because we didn't want to get anything wrong, because you feel like your life is hanging on to these documents and that your future will be decided based on how well you can make your case according to this set of documents. That has to be 50 pages or less per family member, and this has to include copies of your passport, school registration, financial documents um least you know showing that you have an apartment secured in Portugal, health insurance documents. All these things add up, especially when you are applying as a family.
Speaker 1:So that was a year ago. I've changed for the better this time. I thought I would never be fine. I strive just to say I'm alright.
Speaker 3:Dreaming of a life in Portugal, or maybe you're just curious about what it would be like to move here. My family and I began planning for our move way back in 2020. It took two more years to make it happen and it has been quite an adventure. Before you pack your bags, listen in to hear the real stories of those who've already taken the leap. Every other Wednesday, we dive deep into the experiences of individuals and families who chose to make Portugal their home, discover their motivations, the challenges they faced and the unexpected joys they encountered along the way. We'll explore their preparation strategies, navigating bureaucracy and the realities of building a new life in a foreign land. Of building a new life in a foreign land. Whether you're seriously considering a move or simply curious about life in Portugal, these authentic accounts will offer invaluable insights and help you decide if this sun-drenched country is someplace you want to relocate to or maybe just visit on vacation.
Speaker 3:Welcome to Mover Portugal Unpacked. Welcome to Move Air Portugal Unpacked the podcast where we delve into the real stories of those who dare to chase a dream and relocate to Portugal. This week, we're stepping into the whirlwind of preparation with Stephanie and Michael, a couple from sunny California who are about to embark on a life-changing adventure with their two young children. Imagine trading the familiar hum of Los Angeles for the cobblestone streets of a historic Portuguese town. Why? What sparks such a dramatic shift? In this episode, we'll unpack Stephanie and Michael's journey from the initial seed of an idea to the chaotic yet exhilarating process of packing up their lives At least, we'll hope it's exhilarating. We'll explore their motivations, the challenges they're facing and the dreams they're carrying across the Atlantic. Join us as we uncover the why behind their leap and get a glimpse into the raw, unfiltered reality of starting a new chapter in Portugal. Stephanie and Michael, welcome and thank you for being here.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much for having us, Melissa. We're so excited to talk to you more about our journey and the process.
Speaker 3:Well, I think right now you are right in the middle of a journey that is interesting to a lot of people. There are a lot of people that are looking to move to other countries not necessarily just Portugal, just Portugal but hearing like the behind the scenes what people have to go through is is fascinating and helpful to other people who are getting ready to embark this embark on this. So walk me through your journey. What kind of happened that made you decide to take this leap?
Speaker 2:Sure, um, so I guess we can. We can wind back. Yeah, we can wind back to 2020, during, you know, the, the middle part or beginning of the pandemic, and we were on lockdown and we had a newborn. Our daughter was born in February of 2020. And we had a two year old and we were both working from home and so I had Sylvie, our daughter, strapped to my chest in a baby carrier and standing on a standing at a stand up desk, working while our son watched Sesame Street as our babysitter. And it was crazy, it was wild times. But during all of those times we had so much time to talk and connect as partners and as a family and to discuss what we wanted from our life and what we wanted for our children and for our family. And the blessing was that we had all of this time to reconsider our future together and we decided we were talking about what we wanted to do for retirement and we're like whenever we can finally be done working, what do we want to do? And we spent our honeymoon in France and Italy and we both spent a lot of time in Europe and we love Italy. We have always wanted to go back. We love the food, the culture, the pace of life, and so we decided you know, okay, well what, let's try Italy. And why wait until we retire? Like, let's go now. Let's go now While the children are young, they can adapt, they'll speak fluent Italian, and so this was our plan, and, actually, as soon as Italy reopened, michael went and flew to Italy, looked at Airbnb or not Airbnb his bed and breakfast.
Speaker 2:We had this dream to open a bed and breakfast in Italy, and he went to Luca. We had done all this research. We knew what city we wanted to be in. It was great. He had a wonderful trip, but the bureaucracy of it seemed too hard, it seemed too uncharted, it seemed like it was going to be a lot of work. We don't have experience running bed and breakfast. This was just. It was kind of our COVID fever dream. So we didn't let the dream die, though, and we knew we still wanted to be in Europe, and the more that we shared our ideas and our plans with other people, portugal kept coming up.
Speaker 2:People kept saying have you considered Portugal? Have you seen Portugal? They have this passive income visa. We know that you guys work remotely, you may be able to qualify for this visa, and it won't be Italy, but you'll be. You'll be close by, and so that that seed was planted. And then in 2021, right when New York was reopening and we were kind of feeling like more comfortable traveling with the children we took them to Portugal for the holidays and we completely fell in love and our dream quickly changed to Portugal instead of Italy, and you know the warmth of the people. Everything was so child friendly, it was beautiful. We just completely fell in love and we visited twice after that and it just kept reassuring us that this was the place for us. So everything kind of just kept leading us back to Portugal and we pivoted and that became the new plan.
Speaker 3:You know, I think that the pandemic had this effect on a lot of people. We had actually decided we were going to move shortly before the pandemic because we visited Portugal. We visited in December 2019 and then got back and the world blew up. But I think that it did cause especially families to reevaluate how we were spending our time and if what we were doing with our time was really leading us towards our life goals pretty much what you said. So I know that Italy is also another popular place, as well as Spain, and each of the locations Portugal, Spain and Italy have their own interesting ways of doing things and expectations for what you have to do to get there. But I do want to tell you that you're both in luck, because I actually know two families who purchased bed and breakfast after they moved here. So I think that the bed and breakfast industry should you decide to go that route later on, after you get settled in is alive and well in Portugal and it seems like they they come up for sale from time to time.
Speaker 2:So okay, things could come completely full circle for us. Yeah, that would be amazing. You never know. And that's the beauty of this process too, as challenging and stressful as it can be. Um, doors keep opening. You know, like we keep we keep opening doors and you don't know what's behind the door. But you follow the path and then other doors open, um, and think you know, things have been working out and we've we've been staying the course and we've been open to that, and I think it takes a lot of uh, we've been staying the course and we've been open to that, and I think it takes a lot of openness and flexibility to to be able to pursue a move like this.
Speaker 3:It definitely does open to failure and that you might have to pivot, as you said, you know which. Clearly, you guys have already done that once. But I don't think that people who want things to be known and you know in the box, and here's the routine, this probably is not a good move for them. You have to kind of be exactly what you said open to whatever comes your way.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 3:So, speaking of whatever comes your way, you guys have had a pretty big week. You completed step one, you completed step one, and I have heard from other people that this is probably the most challenging to get to and the most challenging to go through. Can you tell us a little bit about what happened this week for you?
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah it was. It was a whirlwind, I guess. Leading up to the appointment was just a lot of chasing papers and chasing documents. So the preparation was it felt intense because we didn't want to get anything wrong, because you know you feel like your life is, is, you know, is hanging on to these documents and that your future will be decided based on how well you can make your case according to this set of documents that has to be 50 pages or less per family member, and this has to include copies of your passport, school registration, financial documents, lease showing that you have an apartment secured in Portugal, health insurance documents. All these things add up, especially when you are applying as a family. So that was a huge undertaking.
Speaker 2:And then we had to get FBI reports. We have to send them to WashingtonC to be apostilled, and then birth certificates for the kids, marriage certificates, all issued within the last six months. So we have these things, of course, but we had to order new copies. None of this is fast, none of this is guaranteed in the current political climate in the US. So we're sweating. We're like, oh my gosh, do not shut down any of these offices, the US. So we're sweating, we're like, oh my gosh, do not shut down any of these offices. We also had to renew our passports because we realized that they were going to expire in 2026, which, in theory, should be fine but they have to be valid for three months beyond your initial 120 day residency, which we were just within like a few days of it. So we decided, okay, well, let's go ahead and rush order new passports All very anxiety inducing as we're trying to order all of these documents, get the passports done.
Speaker 2:And then we had two small children and applying for passports, you have to go in person, both parents have to be there. You know, michael is working full time, the kids are in school, it's. It was just, it was a lot and it was very consuming. Um, and we were saying you know, I left my, my job in November. We were like how would we have done this?
Speaker 3:if I was working time.
Speaker 2:It would have been so stressful to get all of these documents and get all of this stuff together. I was working on it like a full-time job.
Speaker 3:I bet, I bet.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was a lot of work, but we made it to the appointment. It was also kind of stressful because I made a mistake. I totally goofed and I booked our hotel, planned everything around the old location of the BFS office, which is the processing facility in San Francisco that handles all of the visa applications for Portugal, amongst other countries. They do it for India, a lot of the Schengen area countries as well but the old location still shows up as open on Google Maps and so I'm just typing in VFS global office I'm just going based off of Google Maps.
Speaker 2:So we showed to the appointment on Monday morning thinking it's like a two minute walk from our hotel. And then they're like we get there and they're like, oh no, they moved a couple years ago. And I'm like I thought he was joking at first. I was like it's not funny. No really, they moved a couple years ago. So then we're trying to track down where the actual office is and it was 15 minutes away, but walking. But we were like we don't have time. So then we tried to hop in an Uber, but we didn't have car seats for the kids so the Uber wouldn't let us get in.
Speaker 2:Oh my gosh, okay, I'm going to run to the appointment, because just getting the appointment is hard. I'm like you come, you follow with the kids, so I'm like running, I don't exercise, so it's not like easy for me. And, uh, we make it, make it five minutes late. They're actually pretty, pretty close behind the kids hustled and, um, yeah, we made it to the appointment. Once you're all the documents, we were there for three hours. It was forever. We had everything, though All the preparation organization definitely paid off and yeah, we did it. So we left at 2 o'clock, yeah, and got the kids some ice cream to reward them for their tolerance of the whole situation, and then we got on the road to head back to LA. So it was, yeah, it was a big weekend, big day on Monday.
Speaker 3:So I'm going to tell you what my mantra was Pretty much the whole first two years. It was the same mantra and it was we can always go back if we have to. Because it was just so much uncertainty, you know, because we could stay here but we couldn't get approved for our home loan, you know. And it was like, well, we can't do this indefinitely either. So, but I just had to. That was the thing that I told, which might not be very relieving for you to, especially given the political climate right now, but knowing that you're not going to be homeless, you know you can, you can go back and you can reapply and you can do whatever you know if you have to.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think that's a really good mantra and we were kind of saying similar things are like if they have any questions, we have more documents, Because when I started sweating I didn't give enough documents, enough bank statements. But we have everything. We're prepared, We've done our research and trying to have confidence in the process.
Speaker 4:Steph covered most of the the application process there was. We did hire a consultant, I guess you'd call her.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah, we had a consultant kind of review our application to make sure that everything checked out. So the other thing so the the income visa that we applied for was the D7 passive income visa, which there's. There's another visa which is a D eight digital nomad visa, and this is the other thing. We've been working on this for so long that portrait for three, three years, that Portugal has come out with new visas and new programs throughout that time period, so it's also evolving and changing for them. So we so back to the bed and breakfast thing.
Speaker 2:Okay, I guess this is kind of a long, a long story. So originally, we were going to apply using Michael's remote position, so, and they had said that they were willing to sign off on him working remotely from Portugal, remotely from Portugal. This was back in 2022, spring of 2020. No 20. Okay, sorry, 2021. And then we had the visa appointments. We were ready to go and then, at the last minute, his company said we can't, we're not willing to write you that letter, there's too many tax implications and we're not comfortable doing that. So, yes, in theory, you can work anywhere, but we're not, we're not able to sign the paperwork that you need us to. So that stalled everything for us and we didn't know what to do. We couldn't.
Speaker 2:We were looking for other remote jobs you know work from anywhere in the world. In theory there's a lot of them out there. We couldn't secure them necessarily for us in our field with the income that we needed to support our family of four and with the documentation that we needed to apply for the visa. So we ended up purchasing two Airbnbs, one in Phoenix where I'm originally from, and one in San Antonio where Michael's sister lives, and we are using the income from both of those properties as proof of and a bit unusual for the folks at the Portuguese consulate to understand and look at that this is consistent income coming in every month that's being generated by these two properties.
Speaker 2:So we have this consultant look over our paperwork and she said, yes, this is very straightforward, they shouldn't have any questions with it. So that kind of helped ease our minds as we went through this process and that helped us a lot. That helped us a lot with having some perspective on the situation. So that took us what? Three, four years to be able to actually have this dream come to fruition and we weren't anticipating buying Airbnbs and investing in real estate is a whole other thing that we could talk about during maybe another podcast, but we've learned a lot along the way and, yeah, that's what we're using to qualify for the D7 visa in Portugal.
Speaker 3:Well, good on you for planning that far in advance, because I don't think everyone does. I think that passive income requirement people are kind of like yeah, well, we'll get something and you know it's going to be fine. You know, I think a lot of people end up, if they want to make it work, having to move out of their homes and rent their homes and then move in with relatives for like six months. So which you know. If that works for you, that's great, but that can also add a little extra stress to a time that's already stressful, just depending on what your family situation is us to a time that's already stressful, just depending on what your family situation is.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and you know, to be transparent, we consider doing that also, and we are planning on renting our house as well. So there is an real estate has helped propel this dream, for sure.
Speaker 3:So this week you, you got your consultant, you got all of your paperwork together and this week was the week that you actually took it in, and now you are in the waiting period.
Speaker 4:Yeah, and there's one kind of funny story that led up to getting the paperwork, because that was a big process. Steph did 99% of all of the work to get everything done like she explained, so we had the guidance of the, the consultant, to help. But, um, fortunately she recognized that the expiration date of the passports there was a potential conflict, so that it made sense to renew our passports. But what happened?
Speaker 4:is when we went to get our passports, but what happened is, when we went to get our passports renewed, we got new photos. When the passports were delivered, my photo was distorted Essentially my face was just elongated, so it didn't look like me. And so Steph thought it was hilarious. I was not laughing at all, because I was just thinking about what it was going to take to get this renewed, because we were already like you know, the timing was looking good, and then I was like, okay, this is a potential wrench in this whole thing.
Speaker 3:How in the world did that happen, do you think?
Speaker 4:I don't know it looked like. Maybe it got stuck in the printer, you know, like it just kind of dragged, but oh my god, I was dying laughing.
Speaker 2:When I opened it I was like, oh no, I was, I was taking pictures of it I was sending it to, like all of our friends and all of our family.
Speaker 2:And but Michael's like, no, I can't use this passport, they're not gonna let me in the country. It doesn't look like me. And I'm like, oh you're right, like this is. And I'm like, oh you're right, like this is serious. I'm like, okay, we'll, we'll get the correction done, which took so long, it was so hard. And then we were sweating by the mailbox waiting for his new passport to arrive in time for the visa application. Um, and then I was like, okay, I'm not laughing anymore Now. Now I'm with you, this is. But we got it about a week before, I think, our appointments.
Speaker 3:And so it all worked out no printing glitches or issues on the current passport. And you know, this is the part nobody talks about. These are the things that keep you awake at night, where you're like, oh my God, is this passport going to come in? Is this going to be the thing you know?
Speaker 2:Yeah, and we must've been so obnoxious. We were calling from the U S passport office every day. What is? What is the status? Is it in your system? Has it been mailed? Are you working on this?
Speaker 4:Uh, that's the other thing when you call, so you always get a different person because it's, you know, bureaucracy, so you can't really have a, you know, one-to-one follow-up. So when you call, you get a new person, you have to tell them the story and then the tracking number that we had was for the original, the misprinted passport. So that's the only reference I have and then they'll, you know, they'll say well, you know, it looks like it hasn't been processed yet. We haven't received it. So you know, and we're like okay, we can see it's been delivered. It was delivered 10 days ago. How is this not in your system? They're like well, you know, it takes a while. We're like we put a rush on it. They're like yep, sorry, there's nothing we can tell you. So it was pretty stressful.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:That was stressful, I can believe it. Yeah yeah, you know I often complain about the bureaucracies here in Portugal, but I had to have my U? S passport renewed while I was here, um, and it's the fastest it's ever happened for me, can you?
Speaker 2:even believe that. I know I was like.
Speaker 3:Can you even believe that? I know I was like interesting.
Speaker 2:Very interesting, yeah, interesting and good to know, great to know, cause, well, we're good for 10 more years. So, yeah, we'll see what happens where. Where we are in 10 years, we'll see what happens.
Speaker 3:Are the kids for 10 years also no?
Speaker 2:the children are five years so that's what I thought. Yeah, we will have to sort that out.
Speaker 3:Well, when you're ready for that, I've done mine. So actually Lucas did mine, if I'm being completely honest.
Speaker 2:But we can help you if you need.
Speaker 3:So what happens now for you? You know you. You completed step one. All of your paperwork has been submitted. What are the next steps?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so that is a good question. So it's almost April and in theory we're leaving in July or August and between that, you know, the next three or four months, we have to go through our house. We are planning on bringing very minimal items and we are not selling our property in Los Angeles. We're going to keep it and rent it out Because we are. It is an investment for us and we have to empty our house, then only bring. We're planning on only bringing clothing. We're not bringing any furniture or anything like that.
Speaker 2:But we've lived in this house for 10 years and between the two of us, you know, we've accumulated a lot of things. So, trying to go through and decide what to keep, what goes, what sells, what gets donated, and then all of the children's toys. You know we're like what are we going to do with all of these toys? What can they part with? What do they absolutely need? Going through our garage we're also renovating our garage. We're going to turn that into another rental unit. So we have another side project of home renovation happening in the next three to four months, which is another layer of stress. So there's so many moving pieces and I think we're probably at the point where we need to come up with like a weekly schedule for ourselves to make sure everything gets done and to kind of hold ourselves accountable, because the days and the weeks are just flying by the days and the weeks are just flying by, yeah, and it's really hard to sell all of your items when you still need them, is?
Speaker 2:what I found? Yes, completely, because I'm like, oh, we can sell this espresso maker. I'm like, but wait, no, I still want to drink.
Speaker 3:You need your coffee right now, so yeah, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, it's. It's really really challenging, but you know, we feel like these are we can do this, and these are just like logistical things that we have to sort out and we really want to embrace the minimalist lifestyle and this will force us to do that and this will force us to do that, yeah, so I don't know if this is an option for you.
Speaker 3:We did the same. We sold everything. Some people get a packing container and they go that route and they have their items shipped here, but we had friends and family that were willing to take two or three bags of whatever. I know that I sent like three boxes of books to my brother-in-laws and then, as we have traveled back and forth to the US, we just take an extra suitcase, because it is cheaper to purchase an extra suitcase for a flight than it is to ship anything over and it's just a little easier process. You don't have to pay any taxes or anything like that on your cause. It's your own items, right, that you're bringing over.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's a great idea. I think that's a really good strategy and since we're planning on just mostly bringing clothes and toys, Well, I was just thinking.
Speaker 3:you have had two children, you know, in the last seven years, so you start to accumulate a different kind of thing after you have kids. I remember I came across Camille's original diaper bag and it had all of her newborn clothes. And Lucas said are you going to take these to? You know, goodwill? And I was like how dare you suggest?
Speaker 3:that I part with this. You know, in my mind I'm going to give it to her when she has a baby. You know, but that was one of the things that went into storage. It still hasn't made its way to Portugal. That went into storage. It still hasn't made its way to Portugal, but you start the first book. That was the book that they loved and had to be read to pictures. We had tons of photographs. So, um, that's the kind of stuff that we haul over Every time we travel over. We bring a suitcase back full of those kinds of things.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we have been. Photographs was something that we had on our minds as well. We were going to plan, we were going to buy a digital scanner and scan everything, which is another huge undertaking, and yeah, but maybe your approach is actually better. Maybe we just keep it with some family and slowly migrate them over. With some family and slowly migrate them over.
Speaker 3:Well, we thought about doing the same thing, the digital route. And this is all me I'm making myself. I'm giving Lucas material to use against me later.
Speaker 1:But it's me.
Speaker 3:I'm like, okay, I realized that we scanned them, but no, we can't throw the photographs away. I can't, I can't let go of them.
Speaker 2:Yes, that was my question. Then I was like well, well, then we scan them and then we just throw them away. That seems so wrong. That seems wrong, but I guess maybe we're. Maybe we're dating ourselves too, because now we like very rarely even get pictures printed, but so many photos from both of our childhoods, like they don't exist digitally, they only exist in hard copy. Like they don't exist digitally, they only exist in hard copy yeah.
Speaker 2:Starting with that tangible photograph is really hard, yeah, but that's yeah for sure. We feel the same way. That's the struggle. Yeah, we have boxes and boxes of them, so it's hard, oh.
Speaker 3:I did too. I did too. Actually, I took them all out of the photo albums because that was pretty bulky. Um, and the idea is that, as they make their way over, I'll just buy new albums here or come up with a different storage method for them.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's a good idea. I'm glad you mentioned that and that actually takes the pressure off. That's like one less thing we have to do. We don't have to scan photos in the middle of the night.
Speaker 3:Yes, well, that was actually my next question for you is how you would rate your stress level right now in right where you're at in the process. If zero is, you know you're sleeping like a baby and 10 is like you haven't slept for a week, where do you think you are?
Speaker 2:10 is like you haven't slept for a week. Where do you think you are? I guess maybe we can both do it. I feel like five, but if you had asked me last week, probably like eight.
Speaker 2:And then you know, we, even when we were driving up to San Francisco, I, we were on the freeway, headed there and Michael, I made Michael pull over to make sure that we had the bag of all the documents in the trunk, because we left early in the morning and he packed the car and I was like, no, I need a visual, I need to like visually, see the bag with the documents.
Speaker 2:and we were already like 30 minutes out of LA and I was like, okay, if it's not there, we can turn around but yeah, so he probably he pulled over, if anybody knows LA on the way to San Francisco, right by the Skirball and checked bag was there, documents were there, but back on the road, so that it was stressful. And then now you know, we put everything out there. Definitely the anxiety has gone down a lot, the stress has gone down, but now I feel, you know, pressure that we need to start moving on purging the house and, you know, moving forward on some of our other projects and then also the schools that our children will attend has been weight has been weighing on me very heavily. I made a last minute pivot yesterday to unenroll them in the school that I had originally enrolled them in and move them to a smaller school in an area that we were originally not planning on living in and that this you know as a parent.
Speaker 2:I think it's really challenging as well, because it's not just you and your spouse that are moving, it's it's also your children and trying to find a place where they will be happy and comfortable. We want them to be on board with the move and to be happy, and we know it's going to be a challenge and school is such a big part of their day and their lives, that we want to have a very soft landing for our kids If they dread going to school every day and this is a battle and we aren't feeling good about it this could, you know, completely derail everything.
Speaker 2:So, that, and you know we're doing everything remotely, we can't tour the schools, we can only have Zoom calls and, you know, go based off of reputation and trying to connect with other expats or locals who have their children there and talking to them and kind of getting a sense in a, in a vibe, Um, and you know, trying to uh balance, I guess, my rational brain with my gut instinct and, um, trying to lean more into trusting my gut instinct.
Speaker 3:So, um, so we made it easy when it's your kids really hard.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so we made a switch, uh, yesterday to put them into a small school and they're coming from a big public school in LA. Um, so it's all going to be, you know, new and challenging and hard, um, but yeah, so that was weighing on me as well. But, yeah, it's stress levels down. But yeah, so that was weighing on me as well. But, yeah, stress levels down, feeling a little bit more excited.
Speaker 4:What about you? Yeah, I would say four or five.
Speaker 4:I was going to say, four, the thing for me. So the schools were, you know, like Steph outlined. They were definitely a primary consideration and was influencing you know what part of Lisbon we were going to live in, and then checking with other people that we know that live in the area and that, you know, send their kids to school there. So getting that feedback was crucial. I was more inclined to trust her gut, and so when she would ask me, I would be like, okay, what does your gut tell you? Like I think you know you either need more information or less. Like, just go with, like your gut feeling, small school, okay, be done with it, or just keep gathering more information until you have enough to make a rational decision. I think you kind of did something in between, but the fact that that is done is, um, is a relief, yeah, but for me, I think, the thing that I find most um, it doesn't keep me up at night, at night, but, um, this process of doing the converting the garage to an ADU is taking a little bit longer.
Speaker 4:We had kind of a misstep starting off. We were interviewing contractors. One of the contractors that we talked to seemed to think that we had selected him, even though I told him that this was a process and we were getting other bids. So he submitted the plans, assuming that he was going to be the one to do the work. We ended up selecting the other contractor, so then. But he filed them with the city, so then we had to do this kind of song and dance with the city. We're like, no, we're actually going with this other contractor. So there's that process. We're dealing with an engineer and an architect who did these plans three years ago when we were considering doing it and getting the revisions made. So there are a lot of little steps that have, um, have, not, have, not really. We haven't really like gotten a full um. We're not fully along in the process as far as I thought we would be at this point. Yeah, that's been frustrating and there are things that we can't control, so that's the hardest part.
Speaker 3:You know, I think Lucas would say the same. I know that with our stuff he gets emails and messages and it's just little things. It's not ever anything big, but it's stuff that he has to respond to around the building of our house. Or this paperwork has been submitted, or you need to go down and file this paper because they need it for this. And when you're working on top of working on top of, you know packing on top of in thinking about schools, I'm sure that is a stressor.
Speaker 4:Yeah, it is, and then it's. You know there's a lot of following up and then it's also it's kind of like. I mean, it ends up being like. You have to rely on emotional intelligence too, because a lot of it is all right. How far can I push this person without seeming like I want them to feel the urgency and realize this is important, without raising the stakes so high because I might need to raise them higher later? This isn't the most critical thing, but it is pretty important. So it's just negotiating that as well as you know all of the logistical aspects.
Speaker 3:So lots of moving parts for you guys. Stephanie, you look like you want to add something to that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I was just going to say Michael had called it an ADU. I just wanted to clarify because I know not everybody's from Los Angeles and this is a common phrase in LA which ADU is. It stands for additional dwelling unit and it's very common here to convert a garage into an apartment as a rental unit because there is such a housing shortage here, specifically.
Speaker 2:So there's a specific process and code and building and permitting for ADUs in particular, but it really just references converting a garage into a small apartment, really just references a converting a garage into a small apartment.
Speaker 3:You just had some pretty significant buyers there as well, which I can't imagine that helped with the housing crisis.
Speaker 2:No, it's. It's really wild here right now. And then, with all the permitting and everything, everybody's trying to rebuild and get their plans in, which is great. You know the recovery has been pretty swift and you know everybody's been really responsive and, you know, wants to rebuild quickly, which is wonderful. But it may, of course, cause a backlog in all of the paperwork and all of the. You know the capacity that these public offices have for processing, so it may actually cost some additional time for us, but it's okay. We've decided we're gonna leave in July or August, regardless, and we have family friends here who can help manage the construction if needed, while we're gone, and then we'll rent it when we can and we have to just continue to try to be flexible and we're not just continue to try to be flexible and we're not going to stay in LA to watch our garage conversion be completed. That is going to have to be something that we'll manage remotely, most likely.
Speaker 4:Well, let's go ahead, Michael to to live off of or to support the whole family. So I will need to work, and so that was one of the things that that we're still working on, still negotiating, um, whether or not I will be able to keep my job, um, or whether I'll need to transition to freelance. So I've been applying, which is another thing. It's almost like you, you know, a full-time job looking for, like a needle in a haystack, which are, you know, jobs that you can, uh, work from anywhere, and so I have had some interviews I even interviewed with a company in portugal, so that's been interesting to see.
Speaker 4:But, um, but yeah, that adds another layer of of stress, I think, which is you know what, how are we going to support ourselves? So I think for the first year, we've pretty much, we're pretty much covered, so we've got a little bit of a you know, runway there. But longer term, we do need to figure out, you know, how this is going to work, and if I do transition to freelancing, it's not you know, it's not stable. So I may have some good months where, you know, working a lot, and then there could be some dry spells. So it's just thinking about that is also a little bit of background noise and distraction and and anxiety as well, yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, the U? S is going through this thing right now where, even if you're a U? S citizen and it's a remote job, they still want you in the United States in the United States, and that can create some headaches when because, to be quite frank, the same jobs don't pay as well in Portugal and the taxes are pretty high. So I'm glad that you mentioned that, because that's important for listeners to know that it's not as seamless I think. I think it was more seamless maybe two, three years ago, but there has just really been this push for everybody to go back to the office or at least be available to go into the office if you're a remote worker, and that changed the landscape of people who were remote workers and their flexibility to go and do things in other locations.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 3:So let's say you're here. You've been here for a while. What? How do you envision living here? What are your hopes for this move?
Speaker 2:vision living here. What are your hopes for this move? Yeah, our hopes are. I mean one safety is a huge concern for us. I had shared with you, melissa, and we can talk about this briefly.
Speaker 2:I think people are aware of the issue of gun violence in the US and our children go to a public school in Los Angeles. They've had in the past two years two real lockdowns because of folks coming by the school with actual guns and making threats and this is, I mean, beyond upsetting and overwhelming and overwhelming. And you know the gut reaction is just immediately pull your kids out and their safety is the number one, you know, important thing. But then we get it gets normalized and you send your kids back to school and it's this fear that is always kind of there when you send your kids off at the beginning of the day and you know hope they return at the end of the day and we don't want to live that way and in Portugal we don't have to live with that fear Our children will be safe from gun violence. So that's a big one. And then you know we just want an easier, healthier lifestyle, walkability. Hopefully we can ditch the car culture. We just can have easier access to nature, quality food, exercise, just a higher quality of life. Everything is such a hustle here, a hustle here.
Speaker 2:We've been a dual income family. I mean, since we've met, we've both always been working. Since we had children, we've always been both always been working. We don't have a lot of time with our children, you know. They go to school early in the morning. We pick them up at four or five, we feed them dinner, we do an hour of homework and they go to bed, you know, and we just we want more time with them.
Speaker 2:We know that our time with them is fleeting and they grow up so fast. We just want to really kind of slow down and cherish these moments as a, as a family. And if that means that we have to downsize and spend less money and make less money in order to have the time with our family, we are more than willing to do that and kind of take these risks and challenges as they come. And then it gives us an opportunity also to kind of reinvent ourselves and think about different ways of making money and making income and spending money and spending time, and these are things that we talk about. You know constantly also that we have a lot of tools and resources under our belts. We're really capable and we kind of have to, you know, think outside of just like the nine to five office jobs. We have to think more creatively about how we can have other revenue streams.
Speaker 3:I think one of the things about leading a slower life is it actually gives you the opportunity in your own head to have that space to think about what you want. I know that I almost I don't want to say I missed being busy, but I was so used to being stressed. I mean, really is what it is. I was so used to having a high level of stress. It was very challenging for me when we first moved here. But I will also say I feel like I have been able to be more creative and think about relearn things that I enjoy, things that maybe I have a talent for, whereas I just didn't have the headspace to even think about those things in my life as an educator, all I thought about was education and getting through the day, you know, and trying to get a good night's sleep, which seemed elusive.
Speaker 3:So I think that you guys have the right attitude. I mean you're who knows what opportunities are going to present themselves to you when you have the headspace to say, okay, we did it, we made it over here. Now we can look around and we can see what things are. I mean, who knows, maybe you'll get a vineyard and become winemakers, you know, because vineyards are for sale everywhere you know. Maybe you'll want to go to the Alentejo and buy a cork farm. I mean, there are just opportunities here that we don't even know exist until we're here. Not necessarily I've got you farming all the way around.
Speaker 2:Not necessarily that you guys want to be farmers, but no, I mean, you know us and we love wine and this, would you know, this would be a dream. This was, you know, part of the reason why we loved Italy too was because of the wine culture, and certainly Portugal has this very much, and I feel like Portugal is such an undiscovered gem in the wine world too. But, yeah, this is exactly what we're trying to embrace and lean into. More is into the unknown, um kind of shedding our old identities of being, you know, office workers and corporate workers and, um, thinking about life just completely differently. And, uh, it does take time and headspace, uh, to do that.
Speaker 2:And it's taken me, you know, I left my job in November. It's taken me, probably until about now to truly decompress from leaving that hustle and that job of just being in a mentality of surviving. And, ironically, we have spent a lot less money since I've left. You know you don't realize how the cost of convenience having groceries delivered, takeout, pre-prepared meals after school, care, you know, are even though you know I'm not bringing in money Our expenses decreased dramatically in ways that we some were planned and other ways were kind of unforeseen. You know, it's interesting, we don't feel like we need the escapism as much, like we don't go out to dinner as much we don't do expensive things with the kids on weekends. We're not like feeling like we need an adventure. There's just a lot more contentment and peace and ease in our lives. That wasn't there before, and we're hoping Portugal will be able to give us even more of that.
Speaker 3:Yeah, kind of an extension of what you've already started there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but I will say that none of that would have been possible, I guess, probably without the hustle that we put in. I don't want to say that, like moving to Portugal is going to solve all of our problems or that we, like, did all of this hustle for nothing. We definitely were focused and built something intentionally during the hustle years and kind of the corporate job years.
Speaker 3:Well, there's space and need for both. Right, I mean, you got to put some effort into getting the things that you want in life, but I do think that there's a culture of you have to do that your whole life, in the United States particularly, and some people thrive on that. To be quite frank, some people are like I'm in, that is what I want. I like, I like the hustle, but I don't. I think when you're raising children, it's kind of hard to say that that's the life for you. You know it's. It's very hard to have both the family and the hustle.
Speaker 2:Yeah, definitely.
Speaker 3:So what advice do you have for anybody listening that is contemplating doing this or maybe has started their journey?
Speaker 4:Trust your gut. That's the soundbite, I would say. Being patient researching, going to visit. I think all of those things helped and just like what we're doing to people you know who are, who have done it and asking questions and being being open to you know, to what could be. It's not going to mimic, I mean the. The one of the things that I'm aware of is knowing and understanding that we're not doing an apples to apples transfer here. So our life in Portugal will not be the same as the life in the US.
Speaker 4:So, things will be different and there are a lot of things that, even despite all of our research and planning, there are going to be things that we don't, we're not anticipating and that will be different or we're expecting to be. One way that will be even more different than we were expecting. So I think it's just being open to that uncertainty is a big part of it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I think, definitely, as if you're going as a family, we are very much in alignment in our ideas and the things that we want for our family and the risks that we're willing to take. I can't imagine what this experience would be like if one of us was super excited about it and one was more reluctant. I think that would add an extra layer challenge, and I frankly don't know if it would be possible. This kind of has to be something that you're willing to take on together as a family. I think you know it can't just be one person's dream, it has to be the dream for, for both people and for the family. And then the other thing is that this is totally doable. Um, and then the other thing is that, um, this is totally doable, we're not like unique, we're not special, we don't have, we didn't have. We're not like millionaires, we're like average middle class. You know people and, uh, we are able to figure this out for our family. And you know, I think anybody could, could figure this out, uh, if they're willing to just follow the process and, like Michael said, just trust your, your gut instinct and, um, don't give up. You know, keep going.
Speaker 2:We could have easily given up in back in 2021, when, uh, when, michael didn't get that letter from his employer and said, okay, well, this this is. It wasn't meant to be, you know, but we knew it was meant to be. We felt this together. This was what we wanted to do and we kept working on it. It wasn't an overnight success thing. You know, these things, like you said, took years and and now it's happening, and it wasn't all that long, and we had some more trips to Portugal along the way and we had fun along the way too. Had some more trips to Portugal along the way and we had fun along the way too.
Speaker 3:Um, but yeah trust your gut and, uh, be, be in alignment, and it's doable, you can do this. I'm really glad that you said that you need to be in alignment, because I think this kind of thing is taxing on your relationship, um, and it not just your relationship as a couple, but it's taxing on your relationship with your family members that aren't coming with you. You know the friends that you're leaving behind. So there's already a lot of relationship stress and you're absolutely right If, if you're not in alignment, if there's any cracks, it's going to probably really bring those to light.
Speaker 2:If there's any cracks, it's going to probably really bring those to light. Yeah, definitely Construction international move. I mean, these are hard things to deal with.
Speaker 3:They really are. Is there anything?
Speaker 2:else that you guys would like to talk about before we end this today? Um, I don't know. I guess I would just say to anybody um, you know who is considering doing. You know, moving to Portugal or really abroad anywhere is um to uh, to just to try it, to try it. Life is so short and uh, I really believe that you know, everybody should try to pursue the life that they have envisioned for themselves, and if it doesn't work out, you can always go back to the way that your life was and it's. There's no harm in trying. I love that.
Speaker 4:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:Agreed, I love that. Yeah, yeah, agreed. I really appreciate you coming here and sharing your journey.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much. Thank you, that was so fun it was so fun to talk to you and, uh, actually really nice to kind of unpack everything that that we've been through and and process. So I'm still super excited and I can't wait to see you in September.
Speaker 1:I hear destiny and it's calling. I'll keep my head up high through the downs and lows, and we're all going live. Still nobody knows. But I'ma choose what's right and take what comes and goes, and ain't no one in life holding me back no more.
Speaker 3:Today's episode was produced and edited by me. The theme music is the song A Year Ago by Nefex. If you know someone contemplating a move or visit to Portugal, please share this podcast. It's as simple as copying the link you use to access it and sharing it with others you think would benefit from it. Link you use to access it and sharing it with others you think would benefit from it. You can find Mouver Portugal Unpacked on Apple, spotify, amazon, youtube and Buzzsprout. All links to all platforms can be found in today's show notes and at taughtspotcom. Be sure to comment, like and subscribe.
Speaker 3:Just a gentle reminder Mouverre Portugal Unpacked is for entertainment purposes only. It should not take the place of professional or legal advice. The views, thoughts and opinions expressed by the host and guests are their own. They reflect nothing more than that. All experiences are expressed through the filter of the individual. And hey, this is Portugal. We can all have very different experiences doing the exact same thing here. So please do your own research and discuss your options with qualified professionals before making this or any other decision. And a final note any opinions or thoughts expressed during this podcast are not meant to malign any group or organization. This is Melissa LaFleur. Thank you for unpacking today's portion of the Path to Portugal with me.