From Borders to Bacalhau

What does it mean to find home in a place your family once left behind? For Jose, a former US Customs and Border Protection Officer with 33 years of government service, moving to Portugal created a powerful full-circle moment—returning to the country his father had departed decades earlier.

Having previously been stationed in Portugal while working for the US government, Jose and his wife experienced that unmistakable feeling upon returning for a visit after living in Florida: they were coming home. Now retired and four years into life in Portugal with his wife and two youngest children, Jose offers rare insight into transitioning from law enforcement in America to peaceful retirement in Europe.

Security stands as a cornerstone of his family's decision. After experiencing multiple school lockdowns and frequent active shooter drills in Florida, the comparative safety of Portuguese schools provides immeasurable peace of mind. Add to this Portugal's affordable healthcare—just $189 monthly for comprehensive family coverage—and the equation starts making tremendous sense.

The cultural adjustments require patience, particularly navigating what Jose calls the Portuguese "traditional ways." Unlike America's streamlined efficiency, Portuguese bureaucracy follows strict processes with little deviation. Restaurant service moves at its own unhurried pace, with waiters not motivated by tips and perfectly content to let you linger for hours. The slower rhythm initially frustrates many Americans but ultimately becomes one of Portugal's most cherished features.

"I think that here you get to enjoy life more," Jose reflects, capturing the essence of what makes Portugal special despite its challenges. His advice for potential expats? Come with an open mind, embrace the differences rather than fighting them, and give yourself a full two years to adjust before making any permanent decisions about staying or leaving. After all, rebuilding a life isn't a vacation—it's an adventure requiring patience, flexibility, and the courage to adapt.

Curious about what life in Portugal might hold for you? Subscribe now to hear more authentic stories from those who've made the journey.

Chapters

• 0:00 Episode Introduction
• 2:43 Jose's Background in Government Service
• 5:40 Family History and Portuguese Roots
• 17:40 Portuguese Education System
• 31:15 Bureaucracy and Cultural Differences
• 45:19 Healthcare and Quality of Life Benefits
• 1:05:38 Closing Remarks and Credits

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:01

I've seen a lot of change, been through a lot of change.

Speaker 2: 0:05

They don't like to deviate from how things are done. They're very traditional. If you have a process where you have A, b, c and D, you need to go to A, you need to go to B and C and D, whereas in the US, if you can bypass B and C and go right to D, you can or not so much. I think that's the thing that really you have to get used to. You have to have a certain level of tolerance and a certain level of patience to deal with that type of mentality. I think they're traditionalists mainly. I think they love paperwork. I'm going to put this you buy anything. If you buy gas, you know you'll get like four different strips of paper, but I'll be okay, I move on each and every day.

Speaker 1: 0:59

The past is where it stays Way back a year ago. Past is where it stays way back a year ago. I've changed for the better this time.

Speaker 3: 1:18

I thought I would never be fine. I strive just to say I'm alright, dreaming of a life in Portugal. Or maybe you're just curious about what it would be like to move here. My family and I began planning for our move way back in 2020. It took two more years to make it happen, and it has been quite an adventure. Before you pack your bags, listen in to hear the real stories of those who've already taken the leap. Every other Wednesday, we dive deep into the experiences of individuals and families who chose to make Portugal their home, discover their motivations, the challenges they faced and the unexpected joys they encountered along the way. We'll explore their preparation strategies, navigating bureaucracy and the realities of building a new life in a foreign land. Whether you're seriously considering a move or simply curious about life in Portugal, these authentic accounts will offer invaluable insights and help you decide if this sun-drenched country is someplace you want to relocate to or maybe just visit on vacation.

Speaker 3: 2:19

Welcome to Mover Portugal Unpacked. Welcome to Mover Portugal Unpacked the podcast where we delve into the stories of individuals who've taken the plunge and made Portugal their new home. Today we have a fascinating in my opinion guest joining us Jose. Jose traded in his former career as a US Customs and Border Protection Officer in the United States for the sunny shores of Portugal. Now retired, he's building a new life here with his wife and two of his children, while he admits, navigating Portuguese bureaucracy can be a bit of a puzzle for all of us, jose, I'm right there with you. Jose has found immense value in the sense of security. Portugal offers his family the noticeably better cost of living and the overall healthier lifestyle, from fresh food to reduced stress. So let's hear about his journey, jose. Welcome and thank you so much for agreeing to do this.

Speaker 2: 3:33

No, thank you for having me. Thank you for having me. Yeah, so well. As you said, I am a former government employee. I spent 33 years in the government. I retired in late 2021, september specifically and we've been here for now almost four years, so I've got my we. Basically, we're definitely what's the word I'm looking for Stabilized.

Speaker 3: 4:08

Portuguese.

Speaker 2: 4:08

Stabilized. Yeah, we're stabilized. The transition was easy, at times harder in other times. Obviously, it's something you're getting used to, a different culture. You know I have the advantage, um, that, um, I had worked here a few years prior to moving here, because I was stationed here in portugal working for the us government. So I think that's when we solidified our our desire to come back and possibly retire here, although when I left here, I left with the intention to retire in Florida because I ended up in Florida. So after five years the last five years of my government career, I spent it in Fort Myers in Florida and realized very quick, not being from Florida I'm actually from New Jersey originally. Not being from there, I realized very early on that I wasn't a Floridian per se and actually missed Portugal after having left. Now, that was in 2017 when I left. I had gotten here earlier, in 2013,. So I spent a four-year stint in Portugal prior to moving in 2021.

Speaker 2: 5:39

Funny thing is that my wife and I both came back after having left and living in Florida for a couple of years. We came back to visit friends and the minute we got off the plane, uh, I, my, I think my wife was thinking it, or my wife mentioned it and I was thinking it all. All I know is that we both looked at each other and we felt like we were coming home, yeah, so I think that that became, you know, evident, that we basically were missing Portugal. Now that that, actual, I think it takes someone's being here and then leaving, you know. You know that old saying you don't know what you have until you lose it or something. I can't remember what the saying is, but you don't appreciate something until you don't have it anymore, right? Well, I think that's what happened to us.

Speaker 2: 6:35

We left here thinking that Florida would be the Mecca retirement place, and I realized that all the things that I was looking for, I left. You know, I was looking for stability, I was looking for security, I was looking for good weather, I was looking for good food, I was looking for good beaches, good, you know, fantastic sunshine, guess what. That's what Portugal is, in fact, as many people you know that's what Portugal is In fact. As many people you know refer to Portugal. It's kind of, it's kind of like a little bit of California in Europe, right, and it certainly is. It certainly is that, you know, we also left.

Speaker 2: 7:20

First of all, we left because we had to leave, because the four-year assignment had terminated. However, when we left, we were kind of ready to leave, if that makes sense. We were ready to leave thinking that, okay, we were going to a new adventure, you know, new place. And you know, in a way, even though I was here and we were taken care of by the US government, you know, having been attached to the US embassy here, you know everything was kind of done for you. We really didn't get into. You know the mundane things of you know, getting cable or getting electric or setting up you know, gas in your house. You know those things were kind of provided for us.

Speaker 2: 8:06

So when we left, we left with a little bit of a facility. Things were facilitated for us. Coming back we realized, wow, okay, now you have to do it on your own right. You have to go and get your utilities and you want your cable and you want to set up your phone service. That is very challenging as compared to the United States, the United States does facilitate things. Things here take a while. Things here are not as so if you don't have patience, that is a definite requirement considering how things are run here, not quite like they're run in the United States.

Speaker 2: 8:55

We came here for several reasons. The main reason, you know, I have two younger kids. I have two older kids who are already in the US or still in the US, I should say, and living in Pennsylvania and New Jersey. My daughter lives in New Jersey, my son lives in Pennsylvania and I have two kids, a little boy and a girl here, a 14-year-old and a 9-year-old. A 13-year-old, sorry, a 9-year-old.

Speaker 2: 9:40

So I think when we came here, we things that really affected us in Florida were the tremendous amount of active shooter drills that the school conducted and, quite frankly, there were occasions where the schools both my son and my daughter's schools schools, both my son and my daughter's schools went into lockdown.

Speaker 2: 10:10

You know and all because there was something that happened around the school. It wasn't necessarily, fortunately, nothing that happened at the schools directly, but something that happened around the school and for precautionary reasons, they would lock down. They would send a text message to the parents Don't come to the school. You know there's a, everything's okay, but you know what happens, you know. You get to the school, you know you see two, two police cars parked there, probably just just, you know, just uh, two, two guys talking, you know, but your heart sinks because you see two cars. That's something that my wife one of the main reasons my wife pushed for this too, or I should say, agreed was the security aspect of things in the United States, and unfortunately it's something that's, you know, more prevalent. It looks like, you know, there's no end in sight to the violence in the schools.

Speaker 3: 11:16

That's very true and you know, jose, I'm a former US teacher and this was a big motivator for us as well, and my brother is a former US, I'm sorry. He's a former sheriff's deputy and he had to resign his position for health reasons. He has a really weird autoimmune condition. That's very rare, but he actually. I wonder if you have a little bit of the same thing that he does. He said his time as a sheriff's deputy. When you do that kind of work, it really raises your awareness.

Speaker 3: 11:57

Absolutely To how many potential threats are out there. Whatever forum you want, you can fill in that blank. You know. But knowing that, and then knowing that the rest of the United States, all of us know that these I can't tell you how many lockdowns went into and how yeah. Yes.

Speaker 2: 12:23

No, there's a lot to what you're saying. You know, having been in the law enforcement community, of course you know we're more privy, I guess, to information or situational threats and things like that of that nature. I mean that that did part of you know play a role in our decision to come here. You know, obviously you know I do have I, I think I had a leg up. I think most I could say that a leg up, I would say I have an advantage, having had a background. You know my father was, was Portuguese. You know my mother wasn't, but my father was Portuguese. My father was Portuguese, my mother wasn't, but my father was Portuguese. My father immigrated from Portugal to the US in the 60s. Of course he met my mom. My mom was from Puerto Rico. When they met they constructed a life as immigrants in the US. It's funny. I'm kind of the full circle, you know. It's like I'm doing what my father did in reverse.

Speaker 2: 13:32

You know, I went to. It's funny that I came to Portugal representing the country that my father immigrated to. The fact is that it's a funny it's not a funny, it's actually a, I would say, an interesting story, because when I accepted the assignment to Portugal, I was forced to abdicate, or I should say, renounce my Portuguese citizenship, because I had obtained citizenship Portuguese citizenship through my dad. Ok, so, at the it was an official ceremony at the US Portuguese consulate, when I was accepting the position to come here to, to, to Portugal, to Portugal, the consul general at the time was the one who actually made me realize what was about to happen. It was interesting to the consul general the fact that the son of an immigrant Portuguese was now coming back to Portugal representing another country, right? So, so, basically, so you know it was, it was an interesting human. What was it? What do you call those human interest stories? He actually had wanted to print it in the Portuguese newspaper, but the, the U S government didn't, didn't, didn't, didn't't, agree, didn't allow it, right? But in any event, uh, what's interesting, I think, uh and I'm proud of, actually, is the fact that my father, um, who's no longer with us, but uh was proud that his son came back to portugal representing the country that he immigrated from, he immigrated to and basically, while I was here, it was funny because I was almost treated as the prodigal son, if you will right.

Speaker 2: 15:37

You know, the one that came back. You know, and even within the Portuguese and even within the Portuguese, my Portuguese colleagues who worked here with us, you know, almost saw me as a Portuguese, not so much as an American. You know, it was interesting, it was a very interesting period when I worked here, but I think that's another reason that influenced me to come back to Portugal. I mean, I was treated so nicely by the Portuguese and welcomed. We felt welcomed. You know, my wife is of Brazilian origin. She's American but of also Brazilian origin, so she also speaks Portuguese. I think that helped us. I speak Portuguese as well, although my Spanish, I think, is a little bit better than my Portuguese, but definitely the language also helped me transition better. I know that a lot of Americans are coming here not speaking the language. Some are coming here maybe speaking Spanish, which helps very much, although the Portuguese will prefer that you speak to them in English as opposed to Spanish. I think that's because of the friendly rivalry that exists between Spain and Portugal.

Speaker 3: 17:01

There's a little history there, right.

Speaker 2: 17:02

There's a lot of history, a lot of history there, right, a lot of history, a lot of history there. Yeah, and boy do they let me know too, because I'm actually half one culture and half of the other.

Speaker 3: 17:13

So Well, let's go back for for just a minute and talk about your, your father, being Portuguese and immigrating to the United States. And now you are. You have immigrated back to Portugal. What are your thoughts on when? My perception is that when your father left and immigrated to the United States, likely from my knowledge of the history of the culture is that he went there for better opportunity, because Portugal traditionally has been a country that it's very hard to make a high income and there is some poverty here. However, the culture itself is taken care of, and then you going back, it is the, the culture it sounded like to me that you're coming back for.

Speaker 3: 18:10

So your father kind of had to give up a very collective culture where the needs of the community come before the individual. He had to kind of give that up and go into the United States where he could make a better income for his family. So I'm, I'm just curious if any of that, if I'm, if I'm, on the right track and how that kind of played itself out.

Speaker 2: 18:37

Okay, my dad came from, um, I wouldn't say a well-to-do family, I wouldn't say that, but my father came from in the town, he came from one of the two influential families in the town. So Portugal, the way Portugal, a lot of towns and we're not talking cities, obviously, we're talking villages and small towns Usually each village has one or two predominant families, okay, Sometimes even three or one. Some villages have one predominant family, which basically means that that family be it the fact that they're landowners or business owners or what have you basically are the influential family in that town. So my father came from one of two families that were of that sort. So my grandfather was a pro I hate to say the word fascist, but he was a pro government. He leaned towards the government, okay, so did my uncle, my father's older brother. My father, on the other hand, did not.

Speaker 2: 20:06

During the time of the dictatorship, there was a colonial war in Africa which was waged was an attempt from the countries that were under Portuguese rule Angola, Mozambique, Cap Verde, to name a few. These countries were waging an independence war, okay, against an anti-colonial war against Portugal. So Portugal had its own version of Vietnam. Okay, and I think this war lasted 13 years. Well, my father was a possibility that the government was looking for my dad, Right? So my grandfather actually smuggled my dad out of Portugal. Ok, he actually smuggled him. Ok, Now my dad was fortunate that one of my grandfather's sisters had lived in the US for many years.

Speaker 2: 21:28

I mean, this person immigrated in the 40s and 50s, I think. So my father, when he left Portugal, he was smuggled through Spain. I think it's a coincidental thing that I believe a customs officer was actually bribed to allow my father into Spain, because at the time there were customs borders. My grandfather, like I said, my grandfather having been a little bit of an influential person, was tipped off that the government was looking for my dad. Okay, because they were trying to send my dad to the worst, the worst place where the war was happening, which was guinea-bissau.

Speaker 2: 22:17

Okay, so during this time, like I said, there was this anti-colonial war going on and as punishment my father being because my father could have gotten a dispensation because my grandfather was kind of pro-government, but the fact that my father was a little vocal against the government they were going to send him to the worst place where the war was happening. Okay, All right. Once my father was smuggled, my father ended up going to the United States and, upon arrival, my father had a job lined up for him and my dad ended up working for United Airlines. Believe it or not, he ended up working for United Airlines in the kitchen, no less, you know, washing dishes and preparing food. Back then it wasn't like it is today, where you have vendors that operate you know do all the food preparation and beverage you know loading on the aircraft.

Speaker 2: 23:21

All that was done by the airline itself, and this is where my father ended up. My father ended up working there. He ended up retiring from United.

Speaker 2: 23:29

Wow yeah yeah yeah yeah, so my dad. Now, like you were saying about the community, my dad ended up arriving in an area where there was many Portuguese people. Okay, because my father ended up going to Newark, new Jersey, where there was a large, large community of Portuguese immigrants. Okay, so my father, not that he didn't learn English, he did learn English, very broken, very broken English. Almost me Tarzan, you, jane, type.

Speaker 3: 24:06

That's similar to my Portuguese.

Speaker 2: 24:08

I grew up. I grew up my father speaking Portuguese to me. Yeah, I also grew up my mother, my mother speaking Spanish to me. My friends all spoke Portuguese or Spanish, you know. So it's it's kind of like I grew up having this culture instilled in me, you know, since I was growing up, and I think that I've only benefited from it having come back here.

Speaker 3: 24:36

Oh, absolutely.

Speaker 2: 24:40

I was going to say that my father, after the revolution, my father made it a point. Since he worked for United Airlines, we used to have the benefits of flying at a reduced rate. I used to come here during the summers. My father was very. He always wanted us to come here at least one month here and another month in my mother's homeland, puerto Rico. So I ended up growing up Since 1974, which is when the revolution ended the dictatorship from 75 to 1980, we would come here and spend the summers here. We'd spend the summers In 1980, my father attempted to live here and I actually attended 10th grade here in Portugal while I was in high school.

Speaker 2: 25:30

I ended up spending one year here. We lived here almost two years. We lived here in the 80s. Back then Portugal was suffering from growing pains, if you will. They were transitioning from a totalitarian dictatorship if you will, fascist dictatorship to democracy and in the 1980s the governments here were just a basket case. It was just one government would fall, I think, in one year. Maybe six different governments occurred in one year. Okay, it was almost every couple of months. The government would just topple and another party would take over. Party would take over. So I think my father was a little bit also scared. That it was. You know, portugal was leaning communist almost at one point.

Speaker 2: 26:35

You know, in the 80s and I think it was. You know my father tried to come here. I think at the wrong time is what happened. You know my father tried to come here. I think at the wrong time is what happened. You know, six years after the revolution and I think only once Portugal entered the European Union, I think in 1986 or 85, I think is when Portugal started to stabilize and become a full-fledged European member.

Speaker 3: 27:08

Do you think that your dad missed Portugal when he was in the United States?

Speaker 2: 27:14

Oh, absolutely, absolutely, he did, absolutely, he did that. I can tell you without a doubt that he missed Portugal. He absolutely did.

Speaker 3: 27:23

He was very fond of you have an interesting perspective and, as a former teacher, I'm going to have to go there, because you yourself spent a year in the Portuguese school system. Your children are now. Two of your children are now part of the Portuguese school system. And. I am curious what you think the differences between the Portuguese education system and the US education system are.

Speaker 2: 27:53

You know, I think the main, I think the Portuguese system is very that's the word I'm looking for, you know, they're a little bit more strict in the sense of if they see potential in you, they tend to. What's the word I'm looking for? I'm trying to compare when I was here studying with the way my kids are now presently here. I noticed a lot of changes. I think when I was studying here there was no such thing as, for example, portuguese as a non. Was it a PLM, which is the Portuguese non-maternal language, almost equivalent to the ESL? There was no ESL in the time that I was here.

Speaker 2: 28:53

I think now kids that are coming here get a lot more support from the schools okay than I did even back when I was studying here. As far as comparing it to the US, okay, I think that it's a little bit more advanced in certain ways. Okay, especially in math. I think they try to um, I think the math portion of the subjects of math here, I think, are um a little. They they tend to start earlier than they do in the US and I think that you know they teach, you know they emphasize geography more. Okay, I know that in the US it's geography is not necessarily something that isn't. You know, the US is a little bit egocentric.

Speaker 3: 29:54

Yeah, I agree.

Speaker 2: 29:58

I think there's less emphasis on geography, and I think here I noticed my kids like you could ask kids here they'll know a little bit of you know, countries that are in Asia or countries that are in Africa, more so than the average American student, I think. So in that regards, I think the schooling here is a little bit more universal, I guess, if you will, so you've been here for almost four years.

Speaker 3: 30:31

Is it different than what you anticipated when you were planning your move? Are there any things that you didn't anticipate?

Speaker 2: 30:44

You know, I didn't anticipate, so we have, you know, to get things done here, a lot of times you need a lot of, you need to go through a lot of red tape. Okay, say you want to. There are things that you have to contend with that not necessarily you have to in the United States. Okay, here, I think in the US, explained this to people. People ask me what do you mean by red tape or whatever? I think in the U? S they try to streamline things, whereas here there are traditional ways of doing things. I didn't notice that the first time that I lived here, quite frankly, because, like I said, the the uh theS embassy would take care of our everyday needs, almost right.

Speaker 2: 31:34

So I think that in this country they really, really stick to their process. There's not a lot of deviation. Okay, they don't like to deviate from how things are done. They're very traditional. You know, if you have, you know, a process where you have A, b, c and D, you need to go to A, you need to go to B and C and D, whereas in the US, if you can bypass B and C and go right to D, you can right, not not so much. I think that's the thing that really you have to get used to, you know, and you have to have a certain level of tolerance and a certain a certain level of patience to deal with that type of mentality. I think they're very, I think they're. They're traditionalists mainly. I think they love paperwork. I'm going to put this you, you, you. You buy anything, if you buy gas, you know you'll get like four different strips of paper. Yeah, which is the, which is basically your receipt, your receipt. You know they it's. They don't like to streamline.

Speaker 3: 32:59

It's not.

Speaker 2: 33:00

It's not it's not done here. They enjoy a good process, yeah, or a bad process. They do, they do, you know? They told me that, uh, I've, I've asked my Portuguese family this question. I've asked you know why? You know why is there so much bureaucracy? Why does it take, you know, so many steps to do something which you realize you don't need these additional steps? And they said basically, they think it's to guarantee jobs. Basically it's, they think it's to guarantee jobs. You know, portugal doesn't have the ability to absorb, um, or eliminate jobs because, yeah, you know, obviously you know, you have a country here of 10, 10 million and, uh, if you start streamlining, you start eliminating reasons to employ people.

Speaker 3: 33:53

I think there is some truth in that. Yeah, I definitely think there's some truth in that, and I think this is one of the pitfalls of coming in as an expat, especially from some of the more privileged countries. You know we come in here and we're like, well, why is this so hard? You know we should do this. Actually, I see they take offense to that.

Speaker 2: 34:19

Well, you know, you know what I do notice. You know what I do notice. I notice Portuguese people who have lived in other countries, say Canada, us, france, australia, and then they come back here with different ideas. Yeah, and the Portuguese that are here basically treat those, you know, with a side eye. They don't like it. They don't like it, you know, and I think it's resistance to change, I think that's some like it. They don't like it, you know, and I think it's resistance to change.

Speaker 3: 34:53

I think that's some of it.

Speaker 3: 34:56

I think expats here also have a we, and I don't want to call out Americans, but Americans. I think if you make a move, if you're American and you make a move to another country, your eyes are opened. And this goes back to that egocentric thing that you were talking about that many just being raised in a country of privilege gives you this, whether you want it or not. And we come here and it's I did this, so I'll just I'll use myself as the example. The first time we came to Portugal, I'm like wow, they need a generalist to go through. I think that's what it's called. And look at a lot of the language in their advertising, because they're translating things to English and it's incorrect. Well, that's my degree. I have a degree in education. I have one in English as well. So I was nitpicky about things and after living here, I realized that nobody, as long as you get the basic message across, you know they're doing that as a nicety for those of us that speak.

Speaker 2: 36:12

English.

Speaker 3: 36:21

They don't care if it's 100% correct but they also don't want me to come in and tell them how to change it either, you know they're, they're fine with it. Um, so I think that we as expats oftentimes come in here and we're like oh well, we can make you better.

Speaker 2: 36:32

And they're like we don't need you to make us better, we're fine. They definitely take offense to that.

Speaker 3: 36:39

Well, and like you said in a country where you know jobs are scarce and well-paying jobs are even more scarce and people are doing what they need to do to get by. You know it's, it's a slap in the face and I think that's something that oftentimes we're. You know, like you said, we slow down a system or we eliminate a step and we eliminate four jobs. So I would imagine that your, your people that you've talked to, you know your relatives are probably spot on that processes.

Speaker 2: 37:12

We're not fans of.

Speaker 2: 37:14

Yeah, yeah, they, they. You know, I think, um, there's, um, you know this, this country does have a brain drain too, okay. So explain this you have a lot of people, people that have. I'm not saying that the ones that are here are not innovative or not, um, you know, intelligent. I'm not saying that. What I'm saying is, though, that you know the, the, the, the amount of people that have left portugal, because you know a lot of young. You know, uh, people have to leave the country because, uh, they get these degrees and and, um, the jobs here don't pay well. They don't pay well, okay, and I think it's reflective, in a sense, in the services too. It's it in a sense in the services too. It's definitely reflected in the services.

Speaker 2: 38:14

You know, we're used to going to a restaurant, and you know, having the waiter, you know. Basically, you know, actually, in the US, you have the tip culture, right. That doesn't exist here. Obviously, here, the waiters, they're supposed to be earning a living wage, right, and they're not necessarily service-oriented for that reason. Okay, because they're not working for tips, all right. So you have to get used to that. As an expat, you know, you have to be assertive, too when you're ordering. Be assertive, expat. You have to be assertive too when you're ordering. Be assertive, be polite, be assertive Because it's not like in the US, where they're trying to work tables, they're trying to rush you. There's no rush, okay, there's no rush.

Speaker 2: 39:06

They're not trying to rush you out the door. They don't care if you're there four hours, okay, guess what? They're not working for tips, so they don't care. And also, you see that, whereas in the US they emphasize service and speed, so they'll have 50 employees or 30 employees working in that restaurant here no, here you might have only one or two waiters or waitresses, and they have the whole establishment to serve. You have to be assertive. There are times when you have to beg for the check. You have to beg for the check, whereas in the US you get the check even before you had your coffee, right? Yeah, it's a different mentality.

Speaker 3: 39:54

It's definitely a different mentality, well, and I'm glad that you mentioned this, because some of these are the we grow up in, the culture that we grow up in and so, being I feel like I am for in the us, I am very assertive here. I am not. Oftentimes I find myself waiting. No you have to be assertive.

Speaker 2: 40:17

You know, and here it's also, there's something in Portugal called a lay the potato. A lay the potato. You know what that means? That?

Speaker 3: 40:27

means, I don't know.

Speaker 2: 40:29

It's called. It's called the law of the potato. Okay, let me. Let me tell you what I mean, what they mean by this. You buy a sack of potatoes, right? Usually, when you, when you open up the bag to take out the potatoes, you look for the biggest one. We have this mentality from the U? S. You know that it's uncourteous to be aggressive, right, it's, it's it's or discourteous, not uncourteous, it's, it's. It's not polite. Right To to, to jostle it. This is the way it is here. Okay, and it's not perceived as. It's not perceived as being rude or anything. It's just you're, you're, you know you're positioning yourself. You have to be assertive, but polite. You can be polite, you can be assertive and polite. Now you're at a restaurant and you try to catch the waiter's attention or something like that. If they don't respond, go again. You know what I'm saying. It's just cultural, I think.

Speaker 3: 41:34

It is, but there is definitely a learning curve to it when it's not your culture, because you do sit and wait a lot and think, hello, isn't anybody going to help me? No, they're not. Not unless you make it happen.

Speaker 2: 41:51

I see it when I go out and I see people that I know are just visiting. You could, you could spot them, I could spot them, you know, and it's like they're they're waiting for somebody to come to your table and goes no if you don't say something, then I copy. Yep.

Speaker 3: 42:08

Yeah, for sure.

Speaker 2: 42:10

I agree.

Speaker 3: 42:11

All right, so so tell me, because it seems like this has been a good move for you. What has been the best thing about moving here for you and your family.

Speaker 2: 42:24

I don't know whether I attribute it to the fact that I no longer am in a stressful situation, being that I'm retired now. I had this conversation with a friend of mine who was just about to retire and thinking about coming here to Portugal, and I told them. I said you know, the first thing you're going to notice the first couple of months when you retire is that you are going to, um, you're going to de-stress in a sense. You're going to, you know, you're going to. I used the word that I wish I could call now Uh, but you uh, you tend to uh. That I wish I could call now, but you tend to. Oh, my God, it's a distress, but that's not the word I used. Oh, my goodness, I can't recall the word. But one thing that I love about being in Portugal is that I don't feel I feel like I have time, I have more time. Okay, and it's not based on the fact that I'm retired. That's just the way it is here.

Speaker 2: 43:34

When you go out to lunch, you don't get the 30-minute lunch break here. Even people that are working here, they will take their one hour, one hour and a half lunch. It's very it's it gets. Being from the East Coast. Being from New Jersey, the New Jersey, new York area I always had that, you know, rush rush mentality. You don't have that in Portugal. I love that. I love the fact that I can actually, you know, enjoy my meal, just actually, you know, I mean I see these people that are working and they take their lunch seriously. I mean there are some places actually closed down for lunch, right yeah.

Speaker 3: 44:18

A lot of places.

Speaker 2: 44:20

You go to the post office a public, a public service, a public service, okay. Where would you see this? In the U? S, where the post office closes for lunch for an hour? Okay, well, it did used to be that way. See this in the US, where the post office closes for lunch for an hour, okay.

Speaker 3: 44:33

Well, it did used to be that way, like back in the 60s and 70s. But, today it's not like that.

Speaker 2: 44:42

Try to close down one hour any establishment for lunch. That's long gone Very, very, very difficult here. That still exists and I think that, in that regard, you know, I think they have it right, you know, although it could be frustrating for people too, though Okay, some people, you know, some people can only do certain diligences or certain things during lunchtime, right, so it does have this disadvantage, I'm sure, but for me, I love the slowdown, I love, I love the fact that everything does slow down in Portugal, okay.

Speaker 3: 45:21

It does Everything, good and bad, right.

Speaker 2: 45:26

Good, good and bad, exactly Good and bad, exactly I mean. I often tend to tell people. People ask me what do you miss most about not being in the US? The 24 hours right obviously have that type of you know, facility if you will. I mean, but you know you got to give something. I mean, it's almost like that Adage you know you can't have everything. You know Everything can't be perfect and you're not going to be perfect anywhere you go.

Speaker 2: 46:02

Exactly Nowhere you go right Nowhere, but I do tend to. I think that here you get to enjoy life more.

Speaker 3: 46:13

I do too, so to your point. I grew up in the Midwest Tornado Alley, to be specific, and so in the town that I live in, we have this siren that seems random to me. We have this siren that seems random to me and the first, but then I started noticing that it usually, the siren usually goes off around one, although that's not 1 pm, that's not always the case, but it goes off, and it's the same siren that we use for tornadoes in the area that I grew up in. And so my Portugueseuguese teacher, I finally remembered to ask her. I'm like, okay, there's this siren. And she's like, oh yeah. And she explained to me that, um, we also live in a country where you know fires happen and that these sirens, if they go off, they notify the bomberos that they need to get in touch with the station to find out if there's a fire in the vicinity.

Speaker 3: 47:18

And she said unless it's going off around one.

Speaker 2: 47:24

And I said it does.

Speaker 3: 47:26

And she said that's just to give everybody the reminder that it's lunchtime. So if she's like and they forget a lot of days to do it she's like, but if they remember, they like to do that.

Speaker 3: 47:41

So if you're working outside and maybe you haven't checked your watch, you remember that it is lunchtime and you need to go take your hour to hour and a half, sometimes up to two hours, and one of our favorite restaurants is a traditional Portuguese and I'll give them a little shout out because I love this. It's Hibatajana, we love it. But you go in there and there are whole tables of workers, like you can tell, they've been working on road crews, they've been doing construction and they are all there and they have their jars of wine. They have their beers, and I mean they to your point. They enjoy their lunch, they take that time.

Speaker 2: 48:31

I'm going to tell you one of the aspects that does bother me, I guess, when it comes to dining, if you will, in Portugal, so, usually the kitchens are open between 12 and three, right, right. So, say, at four o'clock you decide to go eat something? All right, the only thing you're going to really find are cafes or, or, you know, bake little bakeries that offer, you know, some some.

Speaker 3: 49:09

Tostamista.

Speaker 2: 49:11

Tostamistas or things like that. However, if you want to have a full-fledged meal, you're going to have to wait till seven o'clock. Yep, okay, those are things that do take a lot of people a lot to get used to, right, because you know you're used to going to the us and if you want to eat at 4, 30 or four o'clock or five that matter, you know 5, 30 even if you want to, you know you go, you have. You have dinner at 5, 30 or lunch or late lunch. Whatever. Here portugal it's kind of, it's kind of. You know it's regimented, you know it's 12's, 12 to three, anything after three. Okay, they're not serving you right now. Here's the other thing too. Here's the other thing.

Speaker 2: 49:59

Say you say you do come in at the latter part of the lunch period, which is two, 30 or two o'clock, you might not get, you might not have availability of some of the items that are on the menu. That happens, that happens all the time. You have, you know how you have. You know, here you have that which I love. You know you have prato do dia right or menudo dia right. You'll have a fish, you'll have a meat, you'll have another, maybe three or four choices, and say you're really. Oh wow, they have pork and clams. I love pork and clams, that's one of the dishes of the day. And you go. But let's say you went around 2.15 or 2.30, and they tell you oh, I'm sorry, we ran out of it. You know that that that's something that takes some getting used to right, cause you're not used to that in the U S. So much.

Speaker 3: 51:01

My favorite is when they come out of the gate with here's the menu, but these are the five things we don't have today.

Speaker 2: 51:09

But I tell myself.

Speaker 3: 51:10

When that happens, I say this is the price we pay for fresh food. And. I'm willing to pay it, so I prefer that.

Speaker 2: 51:21

There's an old Portuguese joke. You know where you know. Bacalhau means codfish, right.

Speaker 3: 51:26

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 51:27

So you go to a restaurant around 2.30, say, and one of the dishes was bacayau, the other one was meat and the other one is another fish. And then the waiter will say well, you have three choices. You have bacayau, bacayau or bacayau.

Speaker 3: 51:47

That's a good joke for several reasons, because there's like a hundred different kinds of baccaria.

Speaker 2: 51:55

This is true.

Speaker 3: 51:57

So, Jose, what advice do you have? For I mean, hopefully the people listening to this podcast are considering an international move of some sort. Maybe they're looking at Portugal.

Speaker 2: 52:11

What advice do you have for them? I say do it. I say do it. I gotta say I don't. I don't say it's easy, you know. I say I say come here, you know, with an open mind. You know, have an open mind. I will tell you this you know, I wish I had. If I had to do it all over again, okay, I would have come lighter. In other words, I wouldn't have brought as much stuff as I brought. For instance, you know, if I could have any advice to people, you know, come here with an open mind, a lot of tolerance, a lot of patience, ok, and give it time.

Speaker 2: 52:58

You know, my somebody told me this when I went to Florida and I applied to Portugal too, ok, when I went to Florida, the guy that I took the job that I replaced OK, was the port director in Fort Myers. I took his position when I went. I just, you know, as a newcomer, I asked in Florida, I said you know I'm what, you know what, what is it really like to live here? And can you give me some, you know things of what to do, what not to do, where to go or not to go. And you know what he said to me. You know, I'll never forget what he said. He said you know, I'm going to tell you, uh, we're, we're leaving, uh, florida, we're leaving, I'm leaving Florida, and I go, my, my, I'm retiring, I'm going to the Philippines. That's what he said to me. I said really, you're leaving Florida to go to the Philippines. Wow, he goes, why are you leaving to the Philippines? And he says well, florida, I'll tell you my take on Florida.

Speaker 2: 54:02

And I apply the same logic to Portugal. Right, if you're in Florida or if you're in Portugal, okay. In this case, if you're here one year or so, two years, one year, okay, in the first year, if you don't absolutely love it, you probably are not going to stay here. Yeah, okay, and I think that that year transition, no, I, I, I give people two years because I think the first year is always the most difficult year, because it's your transition year. Okay, and I don't think anybody should base anything from a year's worth. To be honest, okay. To be honest, okay, although you may start getting. You know your homesickness, you know period where you might want to go back, and I encourage people to go back in that first year, you know, or after that year to go back, you know, and see how it is. You know.

Speaker 2: 55:07

You know what happened to me when I, when I did that, after two years of being here, I got what's called sticker shock in the US when I realized that two years prior I was paying maybe what? $15 for a Grand Slam breakfast that I had and all of a sudden it's not $15 anymore. Now it's $32 or $24, whatever it was. I think it was $24.99 actually. I remember and I said, oh my God, in two years it went from 15 to 25, you know $24.99, you know that again. I mean, if you're looking at the cost of living aspect of it, by all means Portugal beats anywhere I think in the US hands down cost of living wise. But I think that what I said earlier about if you don't love Portugal, in the first year or so of being here, you're probably not going to stay here, right?

Speaker 3: 56:13

I think you're right. I think you're right and I think you know it's not. It's not a vacation. This is your new life.

Speaker 2: 56:20

No, no no, and you know what? If I have any advice for people, it would be don't look at the place strictly with vacation eyes, because obviously, as we know, living in a place and vacation in a place are two different things altogether. Ok, you know I did that mistake of being somewhere and thinking, wow, you know, this could be good. Florida, for instance, is one of those you know people go to good. Florida, for instance, is one of those. You know people go to Florida. Oh, my God, there's no snow here. Oh, there's no snow, there's no, you know there's no traffic. Now, there's a lot of traffic, but in certain areas, you know. But you know what? You know Florida had its disadvantages. You know they had something called red tide. You know, here in Portugal, you know the winters could be, you know I wouldn't say dreary, but you know they're not, it's not the summer. No, you know they do have the four seasons here in Portugal. Anywhere in Portugal, even if you're in southern portugal, you still, you're still going to have four seasons, right, you know, uh, construction here in portugal, uh, also is not. Um, you know you need to do your homework as far as installation goes. You know you have to do your homework in finding the areas.

Speaker 2: 57:53

If you look at Alentejo, alentejo is very hot in summer, very hot. That's where I lived. My first four years here was in Alentejo. The heat I mean, fortunately it's not a humid heat, it's kind of a dry heat, kind of like Arizona, maybe. If you will's not a humid heat, it's kind of a dry heat, you know, kind of like Arizona, maybe. If you will, if you will like a dry heat, you don't feel, but it's still hot, very hot. But you know, these are the things that I definitely. I mean again, I don't want to sugarcoat anything. Everybody has their different, you know, uh, you know the different outlook on things, but I, I definitely think I did the right move. I, I, I know I did the right move.

Speaker 2: 58:39

The thing that's hardest for me is being away from my two older children. Okay, which is, I think, a big factor that people need to weigh. You, you know, family, you know I didn't think it was going to be as hard, okay to, because they're adults, you know, and I thought, you know, while we go back, you know, I'm fortunate too that my kids live on the East Coast right Now, say, you're from California. You have to deal with, you know you have to deal with, you know more travel time, you know things like that. So, but you know they've come visit me and now I'm going to visit them, so we're getting used to it. And thank God for FaceTime, right, yeah, yeah, the great invention, and that's about it.

Speaker 2: 59:27

You know, I, I think, if you're, if people are, are open-minded and uh, are patient with the way things are, and and embrace, embrace the, the, the difference. You have to embrace the difference. Okay, if you're coming here, oh, we could do things better. If you're having, you know, if you, if you, if you have this, um, this other idea of, uh, you know, speed over over, uh, what is it? Quantity or quality?

Speaker 2: 59:58

if you will, uh you know, that's not gonna, that's not gonna work here.

Speaker 3: 1:00:02

No, you have to adapt. And so, if you're, coming here planning on being whatever your country of origin is that here it does work for some people. We have whole communities of people who just stick together, but they usually have a lot of money to be able to isolate themselves from the actual culture here, and I think that you know, I personally think that's a little short-sighted, because I think the Portuguese culture is a beautiful one.

Speaker 2: 1:00:37

Well, I do too, but I'm a little biased.

Speaker 3: 1:00:40

Ironically, my maiden name was Bias, so I may be as well, Jose. I really appreciate you agreeing to do this. Do you have anything else? That you'd like to talk about before we say goodbye. No.

Speaker 2: 1:00:57

I think we've pretty much covered it. I think that it's a very big step, obviously, if people are looking for, for example, I mean another positive aspect of Portugal is the health facilities that are here. You know there's some wonderful health facilities here. You know people I don't know if they, when they think of Portugal, if they realize that it is a, it's pretty advanced, even within its limitations of having what we alluded to earlier. People do have low salaries, things of this nature, but you have quite good facilities here, facilities here, and you have, I mean, my wife and I.

Speaker 2: 1:01:53

You know we, you know we don't really partake so much of the government services, health services, because you know, universal health care doesn't exist here. But if you have an insurance, health insurance which is relatively I mean so so much cheaper than in the uS, it's affordable, it's affordable, very affordable. I think we spend $189 for a family of four and we have the level two health insurance. We don't have the level three, which is, I think, $450 or something like that, which is still not bad. We have the level two, not know, not the level one. We're in the middle and we're so, so surprised at how much we are covered. We're covered even for God forbid oncology. You know we're covered. You know where in the States can you say that? You know, I mean you know if you live here, you know you don't have to fear losing your house. You know because of medical. You know that alone is just peace of mind. One hundred percent.

Speaker 2: 1:03:02

I think that's the main thing about Portugal. It's the peace of mind that you get here, you do. I mean, it's just, you know. It's the peace of mind that you get here, you do, I mean, it's just, you know, it's a safe country, um, it's a politically stable country. Now we could say that, uh, it's very politically stable. It's, um, I mean, I don't know, I, I can't uh, imagine now, uh, being US. Now, to be honest, you want to know the vision that there is Not to get political right, but I don't know, I just think we're better off here, we really are.

Speaker 2: 1:03:42

And even my kids, who unfortunately cannot come because they do they also have state jobs cannot come because they do, they also have state jobs. So they're looking at that. Um, you know that pension as well. You know, in the future and this is what they're striving for that this is, it's their turn now. It's their turn. You know, yeah, you know, the advantages that we're giving our kids here too is the fact that you know, if they become Portuguese citizens, or even if, even if they're just residents, but they'll be able to partake of the universities in Europe, they can go anywhere. You know, they can go anywhere in Europe. My son's already looking at Austria. He loves Austria for some reason and you know, I don't know. I think that's uh, there's a lot to be said about their, their futures. You know we did this for their, for them as well, you know, for our kids' future. So if you have kids, it's not a not a bad place to be.

Speaker 3: 1:04:43

I agree, Jose.

Speaker 2: 1:04:45

again, I really appreciate you coming on and sharing your journey my pleasure. Thank you, my pleasure.

Speaker 3: 1:05:16

Today's episode was produced and edited by me. The theme music is the song A Year Ago by Nefex. I've seen all the things that you've done and sharing it with others you think would benefit from it. You can find Mouver Portugal Unpacked on Apple, spotify, amazon, youtube and Buzzsprout. All links to all platforms can be found in today's show notes and at taughtspotcom. Be sure to comment, like and subscribe. Like and subscribe. Just a gentle reminder.

Speaker 3: 1:05:54

Mouverre Portugal Unpacked is for entertainment purposes only. It should not take the place of professional or legal advice. The views, thoughts and opinions expressed by the host and guests are their own. They reflect nothing more than that. All experiences are expressed through the filter of the individual. And hey, this is Portugal. We can all have very different experiences doing the exact same thing here. So please do your own research and discuss your options with qualified professionals before making this or any other decision. And a final note any opinions or thoughts expressed during this podcast are not meant to malign any group or organization. This is Melissa LaFleur. Thank you for unpacking today's portion of the path to Portugal with me to Portugal with me.